| Author | [Modern View] |
| mikejc in WI Report to Moderator
|
Is it OK to move the tanks from an oxy-acetylene set up horizontally in the back of my pickup? Hoses and regulators will be disconnected. Thanks | |
[Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| JMOR Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to Hurryin_Hoosier, 04-20-2010 07:19:04 | | chevytaHOE5674 said: (quoted from post at 11:12:13 04/22/10) Only if the tank were to leak. All of the plumbing contractors I know carry the tanks inside their vans... So since I have to transport my tanks over 100 miles from the supplier to my home I take the car as it gets double the gas mileage of the truck. True, no leak, no problem. :lol: | | [Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| chevytaHOE5674 Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to mikejc in WI, 04-20-2010 07:19:04 | | | Only if the tank were to leak. All of the plumbing contractors I know carry the tanks inside their vans... So since I have to transport my tanks over 100 miles from the supplier to my home I take the car as it gets double the gas mileage of the truck. |
[Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| JMOR Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to woodbutcher, 04-20-2010 07:19:04 | | chevytaHOE5674 said: (quoted from post at 09:10:30 04/22/10) 135 Fan said: (quoted from post at 21:54:09 04/21/10) In the trunk of a car is the worst way to transport any fuel gas cylinder. Dave How is it any different than horizontal in the back of a truck? My gas supplier has been putting them in my trunk since as far back as I can remember. If you have a cylinder leak in the back of PU, then the gas is dispersed into the air. Whereas if in your car trunk, the gas is confined to the trunk & connected passenger compartment, thus setting up the situation for a 4 wheel bomb. | | [Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| chevytaHOE5674 Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to mikejc in WI, 04-20-2010 07:19:04 | | | I transport them all the time horizontal in the trunk of the car or back of my truck. I just set them upright for a few hours before using. |
[Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| 135 Fan Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to chevytaHOE5674, 04-21-2010 13:36:49 | | | In the trunk of a car is the worst way to transport any fuel gas cylinder. Dave |
[Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| chevytaHOE5674 Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to 135 Fan, 04-21-2010 21:54:09 | | 135 Fan said: (quoted from post at 21:54:09 04/21/10) In the trunk of a car is the worst way to transport any fuel gas cylinder. Dave How is it any different than horizontal in the back of a truck? My gas supplier has been putting them in my trunk since as far back as I can remember. | | [Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| 135 Fan Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to chevytaHOE5674, 04-22-2010 06:10:30 | | | If there is even a tiny, tiny leak, the gas will accumulate in a trunk. It won't in the bed of a pick up. The same reason propane cylinders should never be carried in the trunk of a car. They say you can put them in the back seat if you leave the window open. You must have a real moron at your supplier that doesn't know they're not supposed to be transported in the trunk of a car. It is considered a confined space. A van isn't. Dave | | [Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| JMOR Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to DarlynRoger, 04-20-2010 07:19:04 | | Did you actually READ what I said? I said that "I didn't suggest that anyone use....". I didn't even suggest that I had. I plainly stated that I had. "They don't blow up in a fire", you say. Well, tell that to those dodging all the burning tanks in this fire and as far away as the freeway bridge. I believe my eyes more than what 135Fan says. http://ablestmage.wordpress.com/2007/08/24/explosion-of-welding-plant-dallas/ | | [Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| 135 Fan Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to JMOR, 04-21-2010 13:25:48 | | | Your "quote" is not even correct. I said "Acetylene cylinders don't normally blow up in a fire because of the fusible plugs in them...". Obviously if there is a such a huge fire and lots of cylinders are perhaps underground or in a confined space, then yes they can blow up before the fusible plugs have time to melt. Most people only have one or two cylinders on hand at any given time. Your video is an extreme example but does show how dangerous acetylene can be. The exploded cylinder I saw was not in a fire. Dave | | [Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| JMOR Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to Olen (TN), 04-20-2010 07:19:04 | | 135 Fan said: (quoted from post at 04:29:27 04/21/10) O/A 101. Acetylene should never be used above 15 psi and the cylinder should ALWAYS be used in an upright vertical position! ALWAYS!!! I didn't check out Puddles link but lots of people transport acetylene cylinders horizontal. Of course without the regulator and a safety cap fitted(unless it has a raised ring around the valve). Oxygen cylinders on the other hand can be used in any position since it is just straight gas without any liquid in the cylinder. JMOR, if you want to be the one who finds out the hard way why acetylene has to be used in the vertical position, that's fine but to even suggest anything to the contrary is extremely callous, especially on an open forum. I'm curious what formal training you, your brother and father have? I've seen a blown up acetylene cylinder. The training facilty I went to has it. It is one of the first things they show you when you learn about the welding trade. Acetylene is probably the most dangerous fuel gas there is. That doesn't mean it isn't perfectly safe when used properly but using the cylinder in any position other than vertical is a serious accident just waiting to happen. That's why you were told to chain it vertically. Cylinders should always be chained or restrained when being used. Dave I've seen them blown up, too. Some when a building burned down, others on display in a welding supply shop, but the question /answer associated with each one should be, what exactly was the cause of the explosion? When the unoccupied building burned down, it wasn't because a tank was being transported or used horizontally. What about the shop display? Speculate forever. P.S. If you had enough as you say, 'formal training' to read what I said & understand it, you could see that I NEVER recommended/suggested/directed/whatever that anyone use the tanks horizontally. Where do you read that??? :roll: | | [Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| 135 Fan Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to JMOR, 04-21-2010 05:09:16 | | | Yes you DID suggest that acetylene cylinders didn't have to be vertical to use. The cylinder that exploded was because acetone had leaked out. Not standing it up long enough after transporting it horizontal will cause this. Acetylene cylinders don't normally blow up in a fire because of the fusible plugs in them that melt at 212 deg. to let the gas escape. Had you had any training, you would have known that. There are good reasons for all the safety precautions concerning all cylinders. I don't have to speculate about that. Dave | | [Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| JMOR Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to Ralph, Ohio, 04-20-2010 07:19:04 | | Crem said: (quoted from post at 23:07:50 04/20/10) I just had an Acetylene tank filled a couple of days ago. I asked the supplier about transporting the tank horizontal and he told me I could do that but should not use it until it has been standing upright for a few hours. I decided to keep the tank vertical. The first time someone has one of these spit liquid acetone out the torch tip, they need to post about it. | | [Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| Crem Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to mikejc in WI, 04-20-2010 07:19:04 | | | I just had an Acetylene tank filled a couple of days ago. I asked the supplier about transporting the tank horizontal and he told me I could do that but should not use it until it has been standing upright for a few hours. I decided to keep the tank vertical. |
[Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| Puddles Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to mikejc in WI, 04-20-2010 07:19:04 | | | Every forum I belong to sooner or later this subject comes up. I get the biggest kick out of reading the different opinions. :lol:
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?chunkKey=09016334800475b5 |
[Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| JMOR Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to GA Dave, 04-20-2010 07:19:04 | | TBone550 said: (quoted from post at 14:50:42 04/20/10) JMOR, Do you mind if I ask why you and your family don't stand your acetylene up prior to and while in use? I'm also curious as to how you and two other people used "thousands" of acetylene tanks laying down? To use that many, you almost have to do it for a living, and I've been on very few jobsites or manufacturing environments where that wouldn't get you fined and kicked out or shut down. I stand by what I said, anyone who would OK this to someone who obviously doesn't understand the dynamics behind it is an idiot. I don't know of anyone in the business who would disagree. It's NOT safety overkill to keep your acetylene tank vertical prior to and while using it. Do what you want and be proud of the risks you've taken and gotten away with, but it's a good idea to keep them to yourself when an inexperienced person asks what they should do. You don't know how your words can affect their future. 1st question: because the welding machine trailers, trucks, & pick ups all (except one) had the racks built horizontally (bought that way). 2nd: Yes, for a living by father, brother, & self (part of working life) and now for my own eqm't maintenance......you will be happy to know that my current truck at least compromises...mounted at an angle (valve up). Job sites: Hundreds, but remember many years of this operation were pre-OHSA. I do remember a few times we were asked to chain them vertically while working a site. RE, comments: I did NOT recommend a position of use to anyone. Rather I tried to explain the rationale behind "vertical". I did claim many stories overstate the risk, and am a old living example of that, at least as of now. Recommendation; since I seem to be called upon to make same: By all means be as safe and careful as possible, follow local regulations and manufacturers directions for use, use common sense, be a good custodian for yourself and others. | | [Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| 135 Fan Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to JMOR, 04-20-2010 12:25:49 | | | O/A 101. Acetylene should never be used above 15 psi and the cylinder should ALWAYS be used in an upright vertical position! ALWAYS!!! I didn't check out Puddles link but lots of people transport acetylene cylinders horizontal. Of course without the regulator and a safety cap fitted(unless it has a raised ring around the valve). Oxygen cylinders on the other hand can be used in any position since it is just straight gas without any liquid in the cylinder. JMOR, if you want to be the one who finds out the hard way why acetylene has to be used in the vertical position, that's fine but to even suggest anything to the contrary is extremely callous, especially on an open forum. I'm curious what formal training you, your brother and father have? I've seen a blown up acetylene cylinder. The training facilty I went to has it. It is one of the first things they show you when you learn about the welding trade. Acetylene is probably the most dangerous fuel gas there is. That doesn't mean it isn't perfectly safe when used properly but using the cylinder in any position other than vertical is a serious accident just waiting to happen. That's why you were told to chain it vertically. Cylinders should always be chained or restrained when being used. Dave | | [Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| TBone550 Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to JMOR, 04-20-2010 12:25:49 | | JMOR, Thanks for clarifying. The original question was about the transport position, and I won't argue with anyone who wants to transport acetylene horizontally, as long as the cautions mentioned by others below are followed. I just don't want your additional mention of horizontal usage to be misunderstood by the poster (or others who are reading and not commenting) as being an acceptable thing for them to do because going to the trouble to stand the tank up for vertical usage is "safety overkill." Know what I mean, Vern? | | [Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| JMOR Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to j-tex, 04-20-2010 07:19:04 | | 135 Fan said: (quoted from post at 12:53:31 04/20/10) I'd agree with that. They don't just blow up if they are lying horizontal. They do have to be stood up for at least a couple hours before using and suppliers recommend 24 hours, especially if you want to use a heating tip. The problem with them laying on their side is that the acetone won't stay at the bottom of the cylinder and will leak out if the cylinders aren't stood up right long enough for the acetone to settle back down. Without the proper amount of acetone, acetylene is very unstable and can explode on its own at pressures over 15 psi. Full cylinders are around 250 psi. That's a lot more than 15 psi. Any cylinder should be treated with the utmost respect. They can and will kill you if they're miss used and abused. Dave you gave the best & most complete (non-opinionated) answer of the whole lot. As you say, in high extraction rates (rosebud heating tips, etc., there is a possibility of acetone coming out. That being said, I & my brother & father before us, have used thousands of tanks of oxy/acetlyne laying on their sides (transport & use) over a period of 70 years without incident. No, not 'idiots', just not an*l about over-kill-safety. There are reasons for many things, but many things become distorted & mis-understood, & exaggerated as the stories are handed down, too. Insufficient acetone and burn-back are much more likely to get you than transporting horizontally. Just-in-case any of the filler materials were to ever settle AND the acetone charge be insufficient, there is less liklihood of creating a space where liquid acetylene could accumulate when always kept vertical. When all is correct there will never be a pool of liquid acetylene in the tank. | | [Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| TBone550 Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to JMOR, 04-20-2010 11:00:07 | | JMOR, Do you mind if I ask why you and your family don't stand your acetylene up prior to and while in use? I'm also curious as to how you and two other people used "thousands" of acetylene tanks laying down? To use that many, you almost have to do it for a living, and I've been on very few jobsites or manufacturing environments where that wouldn't get you fined and kicked out or shut down. I stand by what I said, anyone who would OK this to someone who obviously doesn't understand the dynamics behind it is an idiot. I don't know of anyone in the business who would disagree. It's NOT safety overkill to keep your acetylene tank vertical prior to and while using it. Do what you want and be proud of the risks you've taken and gotten away with, but it's a good idea to keep them to yourself when an inexperienced person asks what they should do. You don't know how your words can affect their future. | | [Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| welding man Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to mikejc in WI, 04-20-2010 07:19:04 | | | I been buying my gas from the same supplier for over thirty years and have alwaays hauled them in my pick-up laying down, sometimes having as many as eight cylinders at once, they load them for me and have never said anything about them being hauled laying down.DOT regs do say if you have over a thousand pounds you have to placard. |
[Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| Cas Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to mikejc in WI, 04-20-2010 07:19:04 | | | In New York it is against the law to carry
tanks in your trunk. Carrying then in a pickup
they must be secured. Vertical or horizontal
as been discussed. I live 10 minutes from
my supplier and he usually delivers mine. |
[Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| TBone550 Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to mikejc in WI, 04-20-2010 07:19:04 | | The official answer is to ALWAYS have your acetylene tank standing up, whether in use or in transport or in storage. Many people do transport acetylene on it's side, but if you choose to do this, let it stand up for at least a couple of hours before you draw from it. Also you'd better be darn sure the tank valve doesn't leak. The real danger is actually using from the tank while it's on it's side - this is a no-no, and only an idiot would OK this. Oxygen can be stored, transported, and drawn from on it's side and it'll never matter. You'll find that many state laws REQUIRE that tanks ALWAYS be transported upright, thus getting rid of any gray areas or liability to yourself or others. -Joe | | [Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| JOB Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to TBone550, 04-20-2010 08:29:07 | | | When I crewed on this big grey yacht we would high line oxygen and acetylene from ship to ship. And the acetylene was not verticle, we would not use it until it stood verticle for 24 hours. Those were the good old days refueling underway, taking on stores or whatever else we needed all under way. We even brought a doctor across once, he was verticle. |
[Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| D7fever Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to mikejc in WI, 04-20-2010 07:19:04 | | go ask your oxy-acetylene supplier, they will tell you that it is very dangerous to carry them any way but upright, especially the acetylene tank, which has a good propensity to blow up when horizontal. If that guy who carries them horizontal is smart he will go talk to his supplier, and see some of the pictures they have regarding that. I have a welding business, I will only carry them upright and securely chained up, with the regulators off and the cap on the oxy. Do what you want but if you value your life and others lives you will carry them upright. | | [Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| maplehillfrm Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to Don-Wi, 04-20-2010 07:19:04 | | mikejc in WI said: (quoted from post at 15:19:04 04/20/10) Is it OK to move the tanks from an oxy-acetylene set up horizontally in the back of my pickup? Hoses and regulators will be disconnected. Thanks I am sure you are going to get all kinds of conflicting answers here on this one,, I know for one, I lay them down all the time, make sure your regulators are off,a nd tanks capped, and can't roll around and you will be good to go. I always haul them like this and the tank company has no problem with it,,
I have heard you need to let it stand in teh upright position at least as long as you have them laying down,, thats my 2 cents,, lots of time I getr change from that but,,,,,, | | [Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| 135 Fan Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to maplehillfrm, 04-20-2010 07:32:04 | | | I'd agree with that. They don't just blow up if they are lying horizontal. They do have to be stood up for at least a couple hours before using and suppliers recommend 24 hours, especially if you want to use a heating tip. The problem with them laying on their side is that the acetone won't stay at the bottom of the cylinder and will leak out if the cylinders aren't stood up right long enough for the acetone to settle back down. Without the proper amount of acetone, acetylene is very unstable and can explode on its own at pressures over 15 psi. Full cylinders are around 250 psi. That's a lot more than 15 psi. Any cylinder should be treated with the utmost respect. They can and will kill you if they're miss used and abused. Dave | | [Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
| Lefty Report to Moderator
| Re: Transporting Oxy and Acetylene tanks in reply to 135 Fan, 04-20-2010 09:53:31 | | | Kinda useta be able to tell who had a"torch" as they generally had an upright in the front stake pocket to tie em to. :) |
[Log in to Reply][No Email] | |
0 Response to "How to Load Acetylene Bottles in Pickup Trucks"
Post a Comment